Sound volume question

[diggrd]

I still think you would be better off going line in and picking up an inline volume control like this



http://www.minidiscaccess.com/item.html?PRID=1436353

[Five]

Originally Posted by ReverbReverse

five : It's all cool

What i said was "I use the mic in jack, and not the line in, since the recorder won't let me control the volume level," ..i should have been clearer, sorry. What i was meaning was that i don't plug the mic into the line-in, because if i do so (= use the line in socket and not the microphone one) then i can't set the levels - and everything gets instantly overdriven and distorted like there's no tomorrow. When i plug into the microphone socket on the contrary, i can set the levels.

..i don't know if i'm clear that way ?

I was a bit too much on the safe side with that one (was expecting the drums to be louder) but even if i get the highest level possible, it's only fractionally louder..

I was browsing these tutorials on the mcd site you were linking to.. and there's that guy who wrote one of them and makes the point that one should record at -20db in order to have more headroom to tweak with the sound afterwards. I get it in theory, but it left me perplexed since that's nothing i ever read anywhere else :-s ?

okay now I understand.

I think maybe its the CSBs you don't like... they're muddy and non-directional. maybe try some CSCs or other directional mics, that's about all I can think to suggest at this point.

you can try the line in with a preamp but I don't think that will help much. If you just use a cable with a volume pot as above the impedence will be mismatched (but who knows? might sound okay).

[diggrd]

Originally Posted by Five

okay now I understand.

I think maybe its the CSBs you don't like... they're muddy and non-directional. maybe try some CSCs or other directional mics, that's about all I can think to suggest at this point.

you can try the line in with a preamp but I don't think that will help much. If you just use a cable with a volume pot as above the impedence will be mismatched (but who knows? might sound okay).

See I think the impedance is mismatched going mic in, at least that was my experience with small condenser mics using a battery box on my MD recorder. I got a much cleaner sound line in but I don't know enough about CSB's and Hi-MD to be sure.

[Five]

using the mic input for mics and the line input for line-level signals is more theoretically sound as that's how the circuit was designed. Of course it is also possible to use an external preamp that is of higher quality than the internal circuitry to convert mic-level audio to line-level to give excellent results using the line in. I haven't had good results plugging a mic into the line in personally and have only seen it recommended as a desperate hack method of avoiding distortion (from high spls) at the mic input when all else fails. A battery box or some form of external phantom power is necessary to even get signal at the line input, of course.

But nobody's going to argue with results... everyone should try it both ways and see for themself which is better, sometimes the "wrong way" is the right way.

[ReverbReverse]

I'll be trying the line in thing then.. does that mean i need a preamp on top of the battery/roll-off box then ? Or would anything with a sound volume control do ? I must say that, impedence questions aside, i don't feel too good about adding more into the signal chain..

I've been having a look at the minidisc site and their recording guide there.. the guy who compiled it has the idea that the lower the recording (he's suggesting to aim for -20db) the more headroom one has for reediting and reequalizing it afterwards. I was wondering how you guys would feel about that matter ?

Also, i've started buggering the CS people about the cardioid matter, although they had been advising me for the binaural when i was undecided between both.. one of their argument being that if i was "close" to the soundsource, i should go for the omnidirectional.. but o f course "close to" can be defined in many ways :/

[diggrd]

I always went mic > batterybox w/rolloff > line-in on my MD. I started this after my first mic-in attempt was a disaster of clipped and distorted noise.

From what I'm reading the CSB's may have low sensitivity and need loud source to really sound loud. The line-in may not be the solution in your case.

What I'm confused about is the fact that you are getting a low recording volume so the thing distorting may be whatever playback amplifier you are cranking up to compensate.

I would try recording something at a much higher level and see how it sounds. I don't think the -20 is going to do it I would try getting as close to 0 as possible and compare the results if it's better even if clipped here and there then just work down a little at a time till you have the highest level without clipping.

[ReverbReverse]

diggrd > I only get the distortion while trying to amplify the thing - never in the recording proper. I think the problem might be that the bass roll-off doesn't remove enough of the bass, so in the meantime i've been trying to tweak with it in such ways that i reduce the bass and boost the mid and trebble , and only then amplify - sound gets much clearer that way.But not and from far as crystal clear as the recording you were posting a sample of earlier in the thread though (one of the reasons i'd buy the argument about directional vs. omni-directional mics too.)

[Limulus]

Originally Posted by diggrd

......If you want to increase this volume try hard limiting to -1 or so and boosting by about 18dB

http://diggrdslandofthefree.com/too_quietsample.wav

http://diggrdslandofthefree.com/too_quiet.mp3

doing that boosting/limiting you are cutting some or even a lot of frequencies from the original source, please check this cool info about editing in this case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

[diggrd]

That is good info and worth noting, but it is not really frequency

Frequency range: The minimum to maximum frequencies present

that is diminished as much as dynamic range

Dynamic range: The ratio, in dB, between the largest and smallest signals simultaneously present

I would only use hard limiting with amplification on a recording that was difficult to listen to otherwise and most often I use just hard limiting without amplification to flatten out a crowd applause or other non music portion of a recording