VHS to DVD capture

[Crotchy]

Hi there guys,

Its seems to be very common for many traders to transfer there shows from VHS to DVD and nobody seems to trade VHS nowadays..I am a new trader but I have a few special shows on VHS that I would like to transfer..I do not have a TV card on my pc..Do I need a TV card to transfer, I presume I do..I have a very tight budget, I am from the UK and found this..

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...html?LEA-PVR3K

Still this is fairly expensive at $105 USD...

Would I need anything else for the transfer..i.e. what kind of cables?

[AAR.oner]

here's a thread with tons of info...
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=31742

[nibbles]

Damn I laugh every time I read your sig, AAR

Thanks for the link to that master thread. Lots of good info in there.
Fwiw, I like to capture vhs using an analog capture card multiple times
using the lossless codec Huffyuv at 720x480, then make sure all the avis
(3 or 5 of them) are frame for frame identical, then crop off the black borders
to 704x480 (the only resolution that will maintain the true aspect ratio of a
VHS when viewing the DVD on a PC or standalone) then average the captures
to remove the induced noise, then post process using Avisynth and VDubMod to
filter the inherited noise, adjust colors, mask the head switching noise, and
possibly sharpen a bit, then sync up new audio to the video in Premier Pro
using 32/96 depth and sample rates, then encode to MPEG-2 with CCE using
CBR 7 or 8Mbps if possible or 7 pass VBR if not, and also encode to H264/AVC
in high quality lossless mode for future BlueRay, then make a DVD for people
using DVDLab Pro. Phew! Takes foreeeever tho.

nibs

[Crotchy]

I have read the archive..the PCI cards/usb devices are very dated and hard to get a hold of with the post being from 05..Could people confirm if these following PCI cards/usb devices will produce a quality transfer..

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...html?LEA-PVR3K
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-VHS-Movie-...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PCI-VHS-Movie-...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PCI-Digital-TV...QQcmdZViewItem

[AAR.oner]

personally, i don't trust no name brands and cheap mpeg2 encoders, but i'm picky and need to rely on gear to last...personally, i would go with a Canopus ADVC unit, the 110 will work fine for what yer doing
http://www.canopus.com/products/videoconversion.php

also check over at videohelp.com for more reviews on products

[nibbles]

Canopus devices are well respected because they do an excellent job and use firewire to transfer the encoded video to your computer. The downside to anything that encodes your VHS directly to MPEG-2 or DV is that you can't post-process it at all without having to encode a 2nd time to MPEG-2, which compounds the degredation and is generally frowned upon, because MPEG-2 encoding is lossy. You also shoot yourself in the foot if you want to make an H264/AVC version for BlueRay/HD-DVD. The other problem with direct encoding to MPEG-2 is that it might do CBR well, but if it thinks it can do VBR, it will be 1-pass VBR, which isn't the proper way to do VBR as you may know. When shopping for something to encode directly to MPEG-2, check out if it masks the head switching noise, that stuff at the bottom of the frame, which looks awful when viewed on a computer. Also check out if it can capture the full frame at 704x480 without resizing because that maintains the correct aspect ratio when authored with Display Aspect Ratio 4:3 to DVD. In case that doesn't make a lot of sense, what I mean is a circle that you see on your VHS tape will turn out as a circle when you view the DVD on a PC or on a standalone rather than looking like an oval. An alternative is to capture at 640x480 which some people feel is fine. There's a ton of info on Doom9 about preserving aspect ratios from people like scharfis_brain.

If you want a PCI based card to do analog captures, two excellent options are the Hauppage (sp?) 150 I think it's called and any Ati 650pro based card like the TV Wonder 650 that I use or the one by Sapphire. With these you can encode directly to MPEG-2 or encode to lossless Huffyuv for post-processing fun and multi-pass VBR encodes using CCE to MPEG-2 or encodes for BlueRay. These cards support WDM, which is what you'll want because it's more recent and works well with Virtual VCR and iuVCR from iulabs. The older VFW based capture cards that work with VDubMod don't behave well with XP from what I've read. Ati has both 32bit and 64bit WDM drivers. NVidia who I used to swear by hasn't bothered to release any 64bit WDM drivers ever, and refuses to update their Sept. 2005 WDM drivers for any GeForce video cards with VIVO (S-Video in), because if they do, M$ told them they have to make 64bit drivers too, and they're too busy making money off XBox and NForce chipsets to care about video cards anymore. Check out Ananadtech for some recent capture card comparisons, and of course ask at Doom9 on their forums. Just don't use the word "best," which as you may know is against their rules because best is subjective.

Ok, good luck. nibs

[saltman]

I use an ATI All in Wonder card 9800 pro like nibbles mentioned above for my transfers. I plug the vcr straight into the breakout box it came with. I capture to lossless .avi and then use Vegas to render to whatever format I want to end up with. I use DVD Architect to make the menus.

I think my card was around 400 bucks when I got it several years ago. so that is def. not a low cost solution.

[katnapz]

Originally Posted by nibbles

Cut nibbles quote

My 300 captures to whatever the software interface I use at the time...meaning I "could" capture to MPEG2, however, I capture to lossless AVI initially and then use whatever editing software....could be Vdub, Vegas, etc...for conversion to DVD. The 300 does have some nice simple built in features for balance and video correction. Regardless, it'd be out of Crotchy's price range, but I didn't want others to be put off of it.

Additional thoughts:
-Don't use a cheapie VCR. A S-VHS player sounds out of your budget, but please don't use that no name brand model that your parents bought 20 years ago.
-LEARN about different conversion/filters/bitrates methods. If you aren't, you can really take a decent tape and produce a subpar end result if you don't know what you're doing.
-Don't over process.
-Don't throw your tapes away and truly believe that you're going to go back to the first couple projects and redo them after some experience.
-Practice on short sections initially. Hope your DVD player can take DVD-RW's or you're going through a bunch of discs. (This is assuming that you have to do any modifications to the video picture to make it look better-you'll need to watch your corrections on a TV as a computer monitor won't cut it.) -or have a tv hooked up to your computer for checking. I'm guessing nibbles watches his shows on his computer by his comment, but produce your end product with the mindset that the majority of people will watch it on a tv (or so I believe). There is a difference enough that you'll want to compare as there will be overscan and color balance/contrast that won't be the same.
-Worse case, grab somebody's standalone VHS>DVD unit. Most hobbiests don't give them much credit, but considering the practice/patience it takes to really do a credible job on some (i.e., worn/multi-gen) tapes, the machine will probably do the job better than you would on regular tapes. Of course, if you do have really difficult tapes, it's probably best to find a fellow trader with experience to do it for you. Heck, just for S&G's, try to find a standalone to convert a couple tapes over and compare that to your final results...should give a watermark to practice against if nothing else.
-Lots of other comments, but you can check videohelp/Doom9...

I probably sound a bit harsh...sorry,...Just trying to make sure you start out right and think the process through.

Good luck and do your research.

[nibbles]

Originally Posted by katnapz

My 300 captures to whatever the software interface I use at the time...meaning I "could" capture to MPEG2, however, I capture to lossless AVI initially and then use whatever editing software....could be Vdub, Vegas, etc...for conversion to DVD.
[snip]

Interesting. I can't really tell the features of the Canopus ADVC 300 from this:
http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC300/index.php

Would you please clarify that it captures lossless RAW, HuffYUV, or Lagarith
and not lossy DV? If it captures lossless, do you do that through Firewire,
and if so what capture app do you use?

Thanks katnapz!

[katnapz]

Originally Posted by nibbles

Interesting. I can't really tell the features of the Canopus ADVC 300 from this:
http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC300/index.php

Would you please clarify that it captures lossless RAW, HuffYUV, or Lagarith
and not lossy DV? If it captures lossless, do you do that through Firewire,
and if so what capture app do you use?

Thanks katnapz!

Go figure...Installed the latest MS updates and system has crashed. I'll have to get back to you on this one nibbles. Since I've been unable to even get into safe mode I may be looking at a rebuild. I'll try to get back to you when it's set again, but I can tell you that the 300 feeds through firewire and uses Pinnacle Studio for capturing currently (or at least until it crashed). Sorry 'bout that.
Go ahead someone...tell me I should go Mac....

[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by katnapz

Go ahead someone...tell me I should go Mac....

you should seriously switch to a Mac...but go with a pre-Intel machine

[katnapz]

Originally Posted by nibbles

Interesting......

Ok,...got things straightened out on the system now...

Well, I've learned something...and am glad on one level that I don't use this system on a regular basis (I mainly use this conversion method for my problem children tapes). Turns out that regardless of what codec I choose, the end result is always AVI 2 (reported by GSpot). I've never taken the time to check this intermediate step of my conversion process since it's usually converted over to MPEG2 for DVD burning within a couple hours (that, plus a lot of time I use this system for recording tv shows). So, the end verdict is that regardless of any other choices, you always end up with lossy DV. Interesting how what ever program I use to capture allows me to "choose" a codec from a list, but doesn't use it or report an error.
Still,...don't feel too bad about it considering that a minutes worth of recording runs around 250 megs so the compressing is minimal. And I've still got my All-In-Wonder to convert with....
I still have to say the 300 is a great item for cleaning up tapes. The sharpening/cleaning filters work better than I've seen in any software programs and if done right sets up a good foundation for post recording editing.
Sorry for the confusion and good this got cleared up in the end. Guess I'll have to make a choice based on some additional details now when deciding which system I use for converting now.