Clarification - pulling torrents with 'official' material

[GRC]

A recent torrent 'Led Zeppelin Uncensored' contained the following phrase;

"All Officially released material is either incomplete, a rough mix, or sourced differently."

Some of the tracks appear on the official Zep CD - BBC Sessions. The bit I'm interested in is the 'sourced differently' aspect....

When Zep released the CD, they plainly had access to the BBC master tapes; therefore their source is 'Pre-FM'.

Are we saying that if I have a 'Post-FM' or 'Off-Air' of the same tune, that I can claim it's a 'different source' and include it in a torrent? That seems to be what's happening with the Zep torrent.......

If I can do this, it'll save me some snipping of future torrents, and give a much more listenable experience.

Opinions, please?

Regards, Graham

[Five]

the Zeppelin BBC sessions are heavily edited in the official release, that's why you'll see some of those sessions allowed here. sources that mine the official release for some of its content are right out of the question.

if you have an fm broadcast where some small portion is released (maybe as a cd single b-side) you can seed the complete broadcast here so long as you do not mine the official release where the overlap is concerned. If there is too much almost-exact overlap, it is required to remove the overlap and just seed the 'bonus tracks'.

to answer your question, I have a tape of Saga broadcast in europe that is a crappy-sounding version of the live album 'in transit' with no differences other than sound quality. That I would never seed here.

If you give some examples of what you want to share, we can answer your question in more detail...

What about an AUD tape of a show officially released by a band in which the official release is a SBD? Could the AUD tape be seeded? I know some bands allow the AUDs of officially released shows to be shared.

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by Tubular

What about an AUD tape of a show officially released by a band in which the official release is a SBD? Could the AUD tape be seeded? I know some bands allow the AUDs of officially released shows to be shared.

Yes, we have always allowed this.

[Five]

an AUD source of an official release is fine here because there is no competition when it comes to sound quality. fans who have already bought the official release will have interest in the fly on the wall unedited open air recording, and those who have not yet bought the official recording yet will be able to get a taste of how good it would be to own the same show with perfect sound quality and support the band.

also, an official release is not just SBD quality, it is better because it also includes mics on the audience to capture more of the excitement that doesn't always get across in a dry airtight SBD.

I agree, I just wish artists would release 24 bit SBDs for their shows that were recorded in analog or at 24 bit. The 2005 Cream Royal Albert Hall DVD I bought has amazing sound, but the soundtracks are LPCM 16/48 or DTS (lossy, about 18 bit). It was recorded at 24/96, with several pairs of ambient mics, like Neumanns, fed to the SBD. 24 bit AUDs circulate for those shows I believe. The 16 bit AUD I have for one of those shows is OK, but the official release towers over it. I'd rather be front row. btw, look for Brian May, Sean Penn, Jude Law, and Christiane Amanpour in the crowd on that Cream 2005 RAH DVD. Awesome performances too. Clapton looks like he has aged the best of all three, I guess because he got sober and quit smoking. You can see Ginger puffing away backstage. Hope they release a Blu-Ray of it w/ HD picture and 24/96 audio someday.

btw, Five and U2Lynne, why are your names in italics, and the other mods are standard text? Are you uber-mods or did you create this site when STG shut down?

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by Tubular

btw, Five and U2Lynne, why are your names in italics, and the other mods are standard text? Are you uber-mods or did you create this site when STG shut down?

Kinda both of those reasons. I think Five and I are the only ones active here from the STG days. There are other old STG mods that are still on Staff here, but for various reasons they are not able to devote much time to the site. Five and I are both 'Admins' here which simply means we can do a few more administrative things that the other Mods. Oh, and we have bigger PM boxes.

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Five

the Zeppelin BBC sessions are heavily edited in the official release, that's why you'll see some of those sessions allowed here. sources that mine the official release for some of its content are right out of the question.

if you have an fm broadcast where some small portion is released (maybe as a cd single b-side) you can seed the complete broadcast here so long as you do not mine the official release where the overlap is concerned. If there is too much almost-exact overlap, it is required to remove the overlap and just seed the 'bonus tracks'.

to answer your question, I have a tape of Saga broadcast in europe that is a crappy-sounding version of the live album 'in transit' with no differences other than sound quality. That I would never seed here.

If you give some examples of what you want to share, we can answer your question in more detail...

An example would be my Rory Gallagher at The Venue 1979 - I have the whole original FM broadcast, one track was released on the Rory Gallagher sessions official release (which must have been pre-FM or SBD), so I snipped this one out when making the torrent. Luckily it was the last tune, so didn't mess the continuity up, but if two or three tracks had been officially released, it would have made a right pig's ear of the torrent.

The second instance was my Rory 1973 concert, where I uploaded the full thing; this time, one of the downloaders pointed out afterwards that I'd included one track that was on the official release, and took me to task for it - now this one was in the middle of the concert, and really would have screwed things up if I'd snipped it.....

You can see my dilemma.... I hope.

In what way are the Zep sessions HEAVILY edited?

Regards, Graham

[Five]

in those examples you give I think it turned out for the best as it happened.

when its less than about 20% overlap it is okay unless it is a special situation. more than that is considered on a case-to-case basis.

Originally Posted by GRC

In what way are the Zep sessions HEAVILY edited?

http://www.simplyled.net/thegardentapes.html

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Five

http://www.simplyled.net/thegardentapes.html

Phew; another dilemma - I've got 4 or 5 recordings of various re-broadcasts of the Zep sessions; need to decide whether it's worthwhile to upload them, or if they've been done to death from other sources ......

Regards, Graham

[GhostInTheMachine]

cutting tracks ruins a Boot.

2¢

[Five]

Originally Posted by GRC

Phew; another dilemma - I've got 4 or 5 recordings of various re-broadcasts of the Zep sessions; need to decide whether it's worthwhile to upload them, or if they've been done to death from other sources ......

Regards, Graham

somebody did something like this that was seeded at dime a while ago, so I would try to track that down first to save yourself some time.

oh yeah, there's also the 'lost session' with sunshine woman which I don't think is mentioned at eddie's site... the version I have is MD-sourced, unfortunately I think that's 1969-03-03 iirc